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13 The Chinese Room Revisited, Thought on Consciousness << Prev Next >>
by: ColonelZen in reply to 11 by ColonelZen IP: 251.46 rated: 0-0 posted: 2007-11-30 13:10:03
My computer is not a word processor. The shiny disk that says "Microsoft Office" is not a word processor. One of the programs (and associated libraries) encoded on that disk when loaded and while actively running on my computer is a word processor; it ceases to be such when I stop it. Where is the problem here?
from Ben Thonrton on the-brights forums
No, it's a word processor when it's used by someone to process words.

The parable of the word processor is intended to point out that the assertion that an AI is not conscious because of the separability of the program and hardware is purely semantic (association of symbols with external referents). Processes are real things and we have many words referring to processes which manifest only in manipulation of real materials but identifiable separately from them ... and glyphs ("process" for example) to refer to them collectively. Why cannot "consciousness" be a process?

ex Ben Thornton
And the analogy with consciousness would only work if consciousness was also observer-relative and implemented through an algorithm, neither of which are the case.

I have no problem considering consciousness "observer relative". You essentially conceded that by agreeing that animals have at least lesser degrees of consciousness.

No the AI program as algorithm is not "conscious", Nor is the algorithm + the encoded data. Nor is the computer(s) that will run it. But algorithm embedded in the process running on the computer is.
ex Ben Thornton
No, because there is no causal power of the computer hardware to produce it (especially implausible considering the wide variety of possible implementations).

I'm not quite sure what you mean here. Could you elaborate?

The only sense I can make from this is "causal" power of the first TT-AI will be the programmers who wrote it and implement it. It will be a causal agent in the universe at large depending solely upon the motivations programmed into it (and subsequently learned from its inputs in response to those initial motivations) based solely upon the history of those inputs and transponders provided to it. Presuming it has the intelligence and knowledge of its programmers and appropriate access to additional hardware it could be causal to successive generations of AI's ... much as we evolved from less capable conscious entities to more, but with understanding and direction (which hopefully we manage carefully).

Consciousness is the qualitative ability of an entity to reasonably predict the consequential changes in its internal states in response to its own options and ability to interact with its environment.
ex Ben Thornton
Prediction and interaction don't seem to me to be the same thing as consciousness at all. It may be that consciousness has a role in better predictions, or in more complex interactions, but these don't seem to characterise it. Much of our most sophisticated prediction is not conscious.

First errata, I should have said "... relative ability ..." but that doesn't seem germane to you objection.

I've already asserted that yes, I think "consciousness" observer relative. How would you characterize consciousness?

That our predictive faculties are not directly tied solely to consciousness is not dissuasive. I have stated that the perception of consciousness within an individual is (I strongly suspect) largely illusory. The extent to which predictive capacity is tied to consciousness is probably not directly accessible to our "conscious self". And that it is useful in other ways does not count against it, but rather the contrary the predictive faculties are likely requisite to creating the illusion of self.

My (proposed) definition is rather dependent upon the "observer relative" quality of consciousness which you seem to have a problem accepting.

I don't. From various sleep states I have no with the observer relative assertion. I have many times thought myself completely awake but thinking deeply ... and yet my wife will say that I was asleep and that she called me several times before I "woke up". Likewise I have occasionally had dreams where I was aware that I was dreaming and had at least some cognitive abilities (when young, for a brief period I had fairly regular nightmares and feared sleep; but after a while I learned to actually control those dreams and for a while was positively gleeful for sleep hoping I would dream. Alas I soon afterwords stopped having dreams [at least those I can remember] and dreaming is a rare event now).

-- TWZ


Replies:

 
19 The Chinese Room Revisited, Thought on Consciousness ColonelZen 0-0 2007-12-24 15:05:26
 
 
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23 The Chinese Room Revisited, Thought on Consciousness ColonelZen 0-0 2007-12-24 16:01:56
 
 
24 T IBM Catalogs SCO's Failure ColonelZen 0-0 2008-08-23 16:51:00
 
 
23 The Chinese Room Revisited, Thought on Consciousness ColonelZen 0-0 2007-12-24 16:01:56
 
 
24 T IBM Catalogs SCO's Failure ColonelZen 0-0 2008-08-23 16:51:00